Java Developers?

[hallsofvallhalla]

Got to talking to a friends nephew tonight about him wanting to be a programmer. He has been toying with Java and actually has a knack for it. He asked about jobs and I have been out of the job seeking market for about 5 years now so I could not answer the questions. Plus I am technically not a programmer now. I do completely unrelated work (Dialer Engineering) and every now and then we get new tech that requires me to learn a new language but I rarely get to use it. Like the ASP, will only use it for web stats and such.

Anyways, I know years ago Java developers were in high demand, is it still so? Is Java still in use in the job industry as much as 5 years ago? I personally can't stand Java but I would never discourage anyone from learning it but would like to give him some info on the market.

[Jackolantern]

Yes, it is still in very high demand. Or at least, highly skilled people in it are. Junior Analyst positions (typically the entry level, lower-skilled positions) are not really that plentiful these days for Java because so many people have basic Java skills. This is due to the fact that almost all Computer Science students, whether or not they are focusing on software engineering, take several Java courses. But honestly, if they aren't focusing on software engineering, most have forgotten a lot by the time they leave school. There are many opportunities open for skilled, focused Java developers. I believe about as many as for .NET developers.

EDIT: To get just a general idea, you can always head to monster.com and just type in "Java" and see how much pops up. I did the same thing about 6 months ago, and there were pages upon pages.

[Cayle]

Keep in mind that Android developent is done in Java (well, now that Oracle is suing Google, that might change), so it is still very relevant. I'd be careful about placing any long term bets on it though. Keep an eye on that Oracle vs. Google lawsuit thing. Oracle's habit of litigation might be the thing that kills java.

[Jackolantern]

I don't think anything could "kill" Java at this point. It is so rooted in the enterprise development sphere that it will be around for a very long time, regardless of what happens with Android. Many companies have hundreds or even thousands of developer years worth of code written in Java. They won't change that based on any trends.

However, I actually didn't hear about that lawsuit. What is Oracle suing Google over? I thought the whole Java/Android partnership was hunky-dorey.

[hallsofvallhalla]

that would be a dream come true to have android drop Java but I don't see how they could. They are shoulder deep in it.

Thanks for the info.

[Xaleph]

Why would they want to drop Java? There`s no real alternative, unless Google created their own event driven language, which is possible..

Anyway, about demand, I don`t know about America, but here in the Netherlands, there`s still a niche for specialists. Obviously, we also serve regular jobs in the Java industry, but that`s all standard really. As a junior software engineer or developer it`s not that hard to find a good job here, but the real thing is getting a specialty. Being good is OK, being awesome is better. I guess the same applies for the US.

Oh and one more thing: if android did die or stop using Java, Java would die. Ever since Oracle took over, people are not too happy investing in "open source" languages. True, the EE editions are already paid services most of the time, but developers fear for Oracle`s lust for money ( who doesn`t right? ) Anyway, I`m not too happy with Oracle taking over. Mismanagement, overpriced software products.. meh. Pass.

[hallsofvallhalla]

android did die or stop using Java, Java would die.

i tend to agree.

[Jackolantern]

It depends on your definition of "die". Even COBOL and Simula are still in use today due to legacy programs. And Java would have lots and lots and lots and lots of legacy applications that developers would need to maintain and even extend, even if Java became unpopular today. C++ was the #1 programming language of the 80's, and you can see how that has propped it up for decades since.

[hallsofvallhalla]

I just mean it won't be as popular or used as much. Which is already happening slowly but who knows. It will always be around. Still a ton of sites and companies using it and will be for some time.

[Xaleph]

What I mean by dying is like illustrated. It`s true, COBOL is still used, but who uses it? Really? The same thing would happen to Java. New languages keep on rising, where the most recent is node.js. It runs JS on the server, that`s cool, prototyping languages are really something for the future if you ask me. It`s event driven, it has a more loose "inheritance" structure and it`s not strict. The real reason why strict OO languages are still arround is because they get the job done, it`s structured, it has a huge community base and there`s no alternative. If however, android decided to stop using Java and implement its own language standards like Obj-C for iPhone, Java would die. True, maintainance will be key for many, so the language wouldn`t die instantly, but newer products would start to be developed from the ground up in a new faster and better language ( god forbid )

Anyway, i`m still a true Java programmer, so i like the fact Android is programmed in it. Whole new playground