Flash real-time development

[Jackolantern]

NOTE: Off-topic split from this thread.

Then I don't have to BS my way around the internet figuring out what technologies I should be using to get a project like this up and running.

If you didn't want to go Silverlight+Silversprite/Flash on something like this, if you started a project today that used WebSockets for connections, WebSockets would like be standard in a majority of browsers before your game was out of beta. I would only opt for an RIA platform like Silverlight+SilverSprite/Flash/JavaFX if you need the added animation support and additional functionality, because real-time connectivity for the web is going to be solved soon by WebSockets.

[Kada]

I'd get to work on this right away if I could finally figure out where a websocket server would run from. I have messed with creating client and server programs in python, but I have never owned my own web server that could have a server application running on it.

I've used WAMP and XAMP before too, but still uh... no idea where I would even write the websocket server and run it from.

I'm beginning to lose hope. I tried learning Flash but the resources for it SUCK TERRIBLY (I get linked to Kirupa.com often but its so outdated.) And even if I learned how to make 1 player games in Flash, there are no resources that are tutorial based on setting up connectivity to a server to get the flash application multiplayer.

Anyway this is off-topic now Jackolantern, so we should probably create a new topic, but if you have any resources on Flash development that would be amazing :]

[Jackolantern]

There are actually a ton of resources to learn Flash, but all of the best ones are books. Good tutorials online are hard to come by. They are either A. for an old version of Flash/ActionScript, or B. they are just recipe-style cut'n'paste tutorials that don't give you any idea of why you are doing what you are doing. For learning Flash, this would be my list of the books to use, in this order:

1. Foundation Game Design with Flash - A great intro to both the Flash development tools and the ActionScript language.

2. Real-World Flash Game Development - A bit of overlap between the last book and this one, but this book goes into a lot of best-practices, planning, design and organization that are required to make complex applications with Flash.

3. AdvancED Game Design with Flash - The follow-up to the first book in this list. This book goes beyond the basics and will get you to a point where you could make pretty much any 2D, non-networked game.

4. ActionScript for Multiplayer Games and Virtual Worlds - This book shows you how to use the commercially available ElectroServer to create an MMORPG with Flash. Note that this book is not a "build-a-project" book, since any book that made a complete MMORPG in Flash would have to be about 5,000 pages long. So you do need to have some advanced skills to be able to use what he explains to make a game. That is where the books above come in. Alternatively, if you don't want to use ElectroServer, there is another book that uses SmartFoxPro Server called Flash Multiplayer Virtual Worlds. This book is about as close as it gets to a "build-a-project" book, but it has to leave out many parts, such as a combat system, trade, and other things.

If you read, fully understand, and practice with all of these books in this order, you will be more than equipped to make a real-time MMORPG with Flash from scratch.

[Kada]

Thanks Jack, I appreciate you linking me to some books that could be good for learning. I own this one, http://www.amazon.com/Real-World-Flash- ... 802&sr=1-2 but it's quite advanced and not enjoyable to read.

I have heard lots of good things about the Flash Game University book by Gary Rozenweig http://www.amazon.com/ActionScript-3-0- ... 802&sr=1-7, and it just released a 2nd Edition I was thinking of picking up, especially since the demo games you learn to make in the book are pretty sweet -> See Here: http://flashgameu.com/book_game_demos_2.html

There's even intro to 3D games which the demo's of are really fun! So yea, I've heard a lot about Rozenweigs book, but not sure if it teaches enough of the Flash interface and basics of Actionscript before jumping into advanced stuff. I don't want to copy anything, I want the knowledge to be able to sit down at a desk with a notebook drawing up what I want, then programming it in pieces.

I have a programming background, so I have the determination and belief that I can do this, I just feel that my time is precious to me and I dont want to waste a few weeks reading a book that is less helpful than another alternative.

Your thoughts? Which of the ones listed and ones I listed would be better for someone starting from scratch? I'm liking the FlashGameU book because of all of the high reviews.

[Jackolantern]

I definitely agree that Real-World FGD is a dense, tough read. It begins assuming a certain level of experience with Flash game development, which is not very well communicated in the preface or the information about the book online.

I would highly suggest checking out Foundation Game Design with Flash first. The book is about half-parts the Flash Professional IDE, and half ActionScript, which is a great way to begin learning it. I am torn on whether AdvancED Game Design with Flash should be next, or Real-World Flash Game Development, after Foundation. They are both fairly advanced, but maybe AdvancED would make a good next book, since it is by the same author as Foundation, and obviously picks up right where Foundation left off.

Flash Game University is a pretty good book, but not part of my prescribed curriculum lol. I have read it, and it pretty much completely ignores the Flash Professional IDE. It is basically 100% ActionScript, and I feel like the book suffers because of it. While most games don't do a ton of timeline animation, there are great tools in the Flash IDE for game developers. Those tools are mostly left unexplored in FGU.

In the end, no one book will teach you everything you need to know. In order to get close to making an MMORPG, it will take at least 4 - 5 books, and hours upon hours of practice and double-digit practice projects.

[Kada]

I just want to make a basic game right now, single player. I have been programming for a while, and I have a level-head. I know MMORPGs aren't feasible without real skill and knowledge. I'd like to help everyone here with flash stuff too, but I need to learn myself first.

Also, I think I read once that real games with multiple level loading, and dynamic systems that can support multiple items and what not should all be actionscript-based, and I think the reason for this was that using the flash IDE to design levels and things doesn't scale well at all. Can you reflect on that?

EDIT: Found some material to back up my statements/questions:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2857 ... evelopment

They mention Flash IDE is a poor development environment, and for serious flash games I should get Flash Builder and work in AS3 exclusively.
Thats why every year when I go to learn Flash, I get no where and give up The information on the web is so contradicting.

EDIT TWO: Ohhh foundation game design, I've 'acquired' that book in the past. I read the first few chapters and completed the entire interactive story book, thought it was crap and a waste of time, and closed the book for good.

[Jackolantern]

Foundation Game Design with Flash is a great book. It just starts off a bit slow. It is the most approachable book on Flash game design out there. I also have a heavy coding background, but the other books just didn't do it for me. Things speed up with Foundation really fast after the interactive storybook. It is the only book on Flash game development that truly gets you off on the right foot.

And most all professional Flash game developers use Flash Professional to actually make their games, and either Flash Builder or FlashDevelop for coding (I prefer FlashDevelop). They don't do 100% of everything in code, because you are making things much harder on yourself if you do. If you do it 100% in code, for example, you have to make your own state machine in code, which can be complicated, whereas Flash Pro's timeline gives you a ready-made state machine right from the start that is more highly optimized than anything you can make in code. And while tween-based animation is typically not used much for characters, it is excellent for certain background elements, such as clouds. The Flash Pro IDE also cuts off about three quarters of the time to make a particle system. Flash's asset management library is also an extremely useful and clean way to manage art assets and the classes that go along with them. I could go on and on about how Flash IDE makes game development easier lol. Those people in Stackoverflow were referring to coding in Flash Professional, which, yes, is terrible. Code in FlashDevelop, and make your games in Flash Professional. Doing 100% of your game making in Builder or FD is just silly and very limiting. No serious Flash game developers do it.

I guess the bottom line is that you could make games 100% in code with Flash Builder or Flash Develop, but that is typically a rookie mistake made by people coming in from traditional game programming. That is the wrong mindset coming to Flash game development, because you are making things much harder on yourself. People who make games use Flash Professional, not Flash Builder or FlashDevelop exclusively.

EDIT: And when people say levels made in Flash Pro "don't scale well", they should give more info. They are referring to putting each level on the master timeline, which is how people made games in Flash MX 2004 and earlier. That is a bad choice and should typically be avoided (Foundation Game Design has a long explanation about this choice, and why it is bad). However, putting levels together in Flash and storing them in the asset library is a Godsend, and is a best practice.

[Kada]

Wow nice answer thanks man. So you think that book is definitely a best-practice way to get me up and running? I know I'm not capable of Elona Shooter or Bubble Tanks-type quality yet but with practice and experience a book like that can eventually get me on the path to making games like that?

[Jackolantern]

I really do believe it. Again, it won't teach you everything. If you are interested in making advanced single-player games, you should read Foundation Game Design, AdvancED Game Design (good stuff in there like pixel-perfect collision), and then probably Real-World Flash Game Development, likely in that order. With enough practice and those books, you will be able to make pretty much everything. Foundation has basically an introduction to best practices, but it is mostly light in that regard, and has to break them every once in a while, although the author does a good job of explaining when best practices are being broken and why he is doing it. For example, I believe at one point (possibly during the interactive storybook) he has you put some code in the timeline, which is frowned upon, but it is before the reader has learned how to structure the code files. You will find that descriptions of best practices really pick up in Advanced FGD and Real-World FGD. However, at no point in any of the 3 books are you taught the wrong methods and told that it is right.

I know Foundation starts off slow, and even I set the book down and let it go as crap in the middle of the interactive storybook project, but pretty much right after that project it really picks up and was even challenging me. It is an excellent book, and by the end you will be a true-believer in Flash's ability to aid Flash game developers.

[Kada]

That's awesome, thanks again I'll give it another shot. Also, how do I use FlashDevelop? Should I be doing my actionscript coding in it, then saving those actionscript files in the directory of my game project, and when I learn (again) how to link an actionscript document to a symbol, do that?